Roundtrip to Premiere

[jan1]

Couldn't quite decode this from the UI and doc, so hoping there are some community answers ?

I'm working on project where we are round-tripping from Premiere. I get camera source files and an XML to conform. I then need to render out individual clips with handles that can be put back into Premiere. 

I've seen that Mistika can render out individual clips (segments) and can attach handles. But can it also generate a new XML for those for the re-conform in Premiere or elsewhere?

When rendering out individual clips the obvious issue is that there may be multiple timeline instances of the same source file. So keeping the original source filename causes conflicts, the clips have to be renamed by segment and thus a new XML is needed to re-conform. Resolve does this via their built-in Premiere XML export preset.

And as an aside, if you render out clips with handles, how can you in Mistika make sure any tracking and keying is extended into the handles? Is there a way to see the clip with handles in the Visual editor while working?

Thanks,
Jan

[Cristobal Bolaños]

Hi Jan!

Sorry for the delay in answering. 

I think this is the workflow you're asking:

After doing your color grade, you need to render by Timecode, set your handles and let rest as it goes:

 

Now, in order to make the round trip, the best way will be to make an EDL, in the Export EDL2 tab:

Bear in mind that in Clip Name Source you have to select "Use source clip Name". Now, you'll see when your click on Export EDL that this new Edls refers to the render files Mistika made with the handles. Now, when you go back to Premiere, you can reconform and you'll have your handles. 

There's another way to do this:

After you set your render By timecode and handles, you can go to the render settings and in path, select Tape Name. This wil make your render with their source name, although with a final segment index that correspond to the number of the cut inside Mistika: _01,_02 and so on. Now you can create an EDL with this render files. 

On 9/29/2019 at 9:24 AM, jan1 said:

how can you in Mistika make sure any tracking and keying is extended into the handles? Is there a way to see the clip with handles in the Visual editor while working?

You can be sure that the key will be consistent throughout the whole shot. However, unfortunately, the tracking is not replicate it. 

 

Hope you find all of this information useful!

Cheers,

Cristóbal 

 

 

 

[jan1]

Thanks! As always there's a way...

I didn't realize the EDL would with these settings use the render files Mistika made. I will test this workflow.

Maybe we can add a feature request for an option that when selected extends a clip in the visual editor to include a specified number of handles on each side. That would allow the completion of any tracking into the handles.

[jan1]

So my first test of this has produced some results, but no success.

I was able to render out segments, and produce an EDL that referenced back to the segments, not the original clips.

However:

- The initial attempt to render segments with DNxHD failed with an error message (stating something about the codec didn't support this - more on this later). It worked once I switched to ProRes HQ.

- Segments where the source file didn't have enough material for handles resulted in a freeze frame filling the gap. Which may be ok, but caught me by surprise. Maybe a black frame instead would be better so it doesn't get missed in QC if there's an issue. Freeze frames are harder to spot.

- The resulting EDL once imported into Premiere links back to the segment clips, but ignores the offset for the handles. Each clip seems to start with the handle, not the in point.

- The resulting segments were rendered in the source clip native frame rate, rather than the project frame rate. So the new EDL in Premiere is a hodge pod of 23.97, 29.97, 24, etc. In fact I believe the failure of the initial DNxHD render was that it doesn't support some of the frame rates (24.00). I haven't debugged everything in detail, but I'm worried that this mixed frame rate also leads to additional confusion in the resulting timeline.

Edited September 30, 2019 by jan1

[Cristobal Bolaños]

Hi Jan!

I'm sorry you encountered all these issues.

Let's go part by part:

On 9/30/2019 at 1:55 PM, jan1 said:

- The initial attempt to render segments with DNxHD failed with an error message (stating something about the codec didn't support this - more on this later). It worked once I switched to ProRes HQ.

As you said, there must be some configuration that it is not supported by the DNxHD codec. And for sure EDLs are not well handlers of multiple frame rates. We'll be testing this workflow and catching possible issues and report them to the dev team. However, there's also the possibility that Premiere is not properly reading the EDL. 

 

On 9/30/2019 at 1:55 PM, jan1 said:

- Segments where the source file didn't have enough material for handles resulted in a freeze frame filling the gap. Which may be ok, but caught me by surprise. Maybe a black frame instead would be better so it doesn't get missed in QC if there's an issue. Freeze frames are harder to spot.

I'm afraid that behavior cannot be changed. It performs the render as if a group that has been enlarged and the sides get freeze-framed. 

 

On 9/30/2019 at 1:55 PM, jan1 said:

- The resulting EDL once imported into Premiere links back to the segment clips, but ignores the offset for the handles. Each clip seems to start with the handle, not the in point.

Last week I briefly tested with shots all of 24 fps and could reconform in Premiere. We'll do more testing with clips of multiple frame rates and look for issues.

Cheers,

Cristóbal 

 

[mail18]

Since I am trying to move from Davinci Resolve to Mistika I am also struggling with a nice roundtrip to Premiere.

Most of the EDL2 conforming is working except for.

1 - When using handles the first frame of the new clip is seen as the first frame in the edit, so all edit points are shifted with the amount of frame handles.

2 - When I export a EDL2 with the edit in the construct starting on 00:00:00:00  the duration of the first two clips are merged. 

So clip 1 and 2 are combined to clip 2 with the duration of both. (if that makes any sense)  
If I start the edit on another timecode the EDL2 comes out fine with the clips in the right order. Only issue 1 is still active.

[jan1]

I think this is a known limitation and the dev team has it on their list. I don't think there is any short-term work around.

Jan

[mail18]

That's life.... I hope it gets fixed soon
Very often I have to rebuild a edit with a lot of effects and crazy transitions.
And I cannot do this without handles, I know I can export these shots separately with handles and replace them in the edit.
But very often I have limited time so I need a fast and solid workflow.

Now I need to stay with Resolve for these kind of projects.?

[Cristobal Bolaños]

Hi!!

Yes, as Jan said it is an already known issue and the dev team is already taking care of it. It is expected to be fixed in the short tem.

I'd like to add that you can also work transitions inside Mistika timeline editor and work directly with the conformed footage. Besides, Mistika has better color science than Premiere, which leads for better results in the final render I can vouch for ? 

Apologies for the inconvenience.  I'll let you know whenever the fix is ready.

Cheers,
Cristóbal