Translating From Resolve

[jan1]

I spent some time replicating a recent beauty grade I did in Resolve in Mistika to make sure I understand the corresponding tools. Along the I learned a lot of details, but also came across a few things I'm missing. Several of these may exist, and I may just know exactly where they're hiding.

Anyway, attached is the node graph from Resolve. It's a pretty typical graph that is replicated on each clip and then adjusted as needed. 

It largely divides the grade into two branches, one for background and one for skin which merge at the end. And also, all skin keys are sourced from the original balance node to avoid any cascading effects.

I did manage to create a template group in Mistika that more or less does the same thing. Attached a screenshot of the eval tree and the vector stack of the main skin color node.

I think this could be a helpful set of tutorials over time for many new users coming from Resolve on how to translate some common node graph elements.

 

Here are the questions and observations:

1. In my eval tree I want to make sure I'm not copying the original clip, but rather can reference it in different parts. I eventually figured out how to use a template group with dummy1 nodes to achieve that. But I was wondering if there is a different mechanism outside of a template group that allows any layer in the eval tree to be used by reference elsewhere in the same tree. The same way you can select the external key resources, it would be great to have like a 'reference' effect that has a single parameter, which is to select another eval tree layer as source.
2. I figured out a way to replicate a key mixer in Mistika. You use a vector per key and then use the mask/add/sub operators in the external key to combine them. The one issue I ran into that, is that when there's a window on the vector, that vector affects the external key input as well, which can be a problem. It makes sense for windows to affect the internal key, but affecting the external key should be at least optional.
3. Is there a way of re-ordering vectors in a color grade node? Once in a while as building a complex color node, especially with complex keys it may be necessary to insert a vector higher up.
4. When referencing external key sources, it would be helpful to get the names of the vectors rather than V2, V3, V4...
5. I love that in the pre-key window you can select a different source for the key. That makes it so much easier to make sure the key is un-alterated.

[grosfeld@outlook.com]

Hey Jan,

Regarding: 

Is there a way of re-ordering vectors in a color grade node? Once in a while as building a complex color node, especially with complex keys it may be necessary to insert a vector higher up.

If I understand your question correctly, you can use the "move layer before and after" buttons in the layer tab (just above the layer stack). Pretty darn simple :). 

Best!
Jef

[jan1]

14 hours ago, grosfeld@outlook.com said:

move layer before and after

Thanks. Sometimes things hide in plain sight. There I was trying to drag the vectors with all combinations of shift, cmd, opt....

[Rakesh Malik]

I also discovered that if you double click the vector names, you can rename them... very useful! So you could easily prep one color grade node with a layer set that you like and propagate that set across all of them to have a prese scaffold, in case you like to work that way. 

[Cristobal Bolaños]

Hi!

Sorry for the delay Jan. We've been investigating how to sort out a solution for your requests. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and bits of advice about translating from Resolve. Awesome composition for beauty grading.

First of all, bear in mind that if you are more used to dealing with nodes you can select the Node Graph window right in the left part of the timeline editor. You can choose what way to work with. Sometimes I use both and I take the best of both worlds. This is an example of a node tree of a green screen composition I made:

 

Now, regarding your questions, let's break it down bit by bit:

 

Q1: There's an effect called Feedback in Mistika that kinds of do the feature you are asking for. However, we do not fully understand what you aim to do. It could be done as a dummy as you said, or by an FX preset. Please, would you describe in detail what you want to do and we'll give you a response as soon as possible? ?

Q2:  Indeed, in order to plus alphas, the area is limited to the shapes you are creating. In order to make a key mix with different operations, you could use a Comp3D node or the Channels effect, which I personally recommend, hence I'll proceed to explain.I've made an explanatory environment for you. Let's supposed I want to plus an alpha of the teeth and an alpha of eyes in the same vector of the following picture. These are the steps to follow:

1. Create key of the eyes on a color grade. Create a mask in order to avoid extra information.  In the Output tab of the keyer menu, select enable ext key, source, A, and finally Export Key > Inside. 
2. On a separate Color grade, create key of the teeth. Create a mask as well. Do the same, in the Output tab of the keyer menu, select enable exte key, source, A, and finally Export Key > Inside. 
3. Group them, and set a Channels Effect on top. In the Alpha tab, select Plus as operation. 4. Finally, group it, and you can use that as an alpha for your color grading. In another Color Grade node, you can set the footage on top and the alpha on the bottom. Then in the Output tab of the keyer menu select Enable Ext Key, In2, A.

In the environment I've attached you'll see I have lightning the teeth and the eyes together. Of course, there are other ways to perform this same operation. I'd suggest the Channels effect four sure, but let me know if you want more examples.

Q3:  I'm afraid you cannot drag and drop. You can copy and paste nodes, go to Layer > Insert Layer / Move Before / Move after, and rename them for more visual feedback ?

Q4: Feature request compiled! Soon we will post a survey for you operators to vote which one should be prioritized. 

Q5: I love it too. So useful. Sometimes you can combine it with the Recover Mode in the Option Tab, which you can also choose what source to recover.

Hope it helped!

Cheers,

Cristóbal 

PLUS_ALPHAS.env

[jan1]

14 hours ago, cbolanos@sgo.es said:

 

Q1: There's an effect called Feedback in Mistika that kinds of do the feature you are asking for. However, we do not fully understand what you aim to do. It could be done as a dummy as you said, or by an FX preset. Please, would you describe in detail what you want to do and we'll give you a response as soon as possible? ?

Hi Cristobal,

Thanks. To clarify Q1: As in this example it can be done with a dummy node. But in my understanding dummy nodes only work in a template group. What if you wanted do the same in a regular node tree before or without turning it into a template?  Also, even if I create a template group, when nesting them for a complex tree, I have to keep adding dummy nodes at each level to propagate it, which made the tree at least several nodes taller. 

When watching tutorials (like the frequency separation) I see a lot of folks just duplicating the clip. Maybe there is no downside to just doing that (as it's just a reference to the original file), and I'm overcomplicating things ? It would just seem cleaner. Also then you could just copy a tree to the next clips left/right, without having to worry about duplicating the correct clip, since everything sitting above the clip is clip neutral.

A different way of looking at it - in your green screen tree above you have a clip 009M9 twice as a leave. If I understand correctly, the only way I can have the main source clip once in the tree, unless you copy it, correct? If you had a 'reference' node, then you could have the source once, and all other leaves in the tree can simply reference the first one. Kind of the same way you can reference other vectors or inputs for keys. 

Such a reference node would have a single parameter, which would be a drop down (similar to the input drop down), and instead it would list all source footage clips that are in the tree already.

[jan1]

I was looking at the Feedback FX before, but wasn't totally sure what it does. I just played with it, and it kind of works. But sometimes when adding effects it wants to collapse the stack.

The left is what I think you meant with Feedback, you put it once above the clip to 'write feedback' and then you can reference feedback in the tree above with scope set as such that those have 0 inputs. 

On the right is what I see others do in tutorials, just copy the clip multiple times. Works fine, just seems non-intuitive from a tree perspective. In my mind the tree should have a single input that can be referenced multiple times. In Resolve if you create a compound node, you can put a null node as the first node in the tree to act as a source splitter. Or you can have multiple inputs. 

[Yoav Raz]

Hi Jan

if you switch to node graph

Than with alt key pressed.  you can drag the effect leg or whatever it’s name is. 

And connect it to another input.  

Hope it helps. 

Cheers Yoav

[jan1]

14 hours ago, Yoav Raz said:

And connect it to another input.  

Ah, yes, that's exactly what I was looking for. I guess it's called the 'Link' layer. And it has exactly one argument, though it's not very intuitive, as it is the 'source offset' in the tree, rather than something more descriptive like a layer name, etc. And I don't know if it can be created in the timeline editor or if you always have to go to the node editor to do it?

 

[Yoav Raz]

Hi jan

as far as I know it’s only in node graph. 

But there’s another nice effect you can use. for complex comps is the connect effect. It is an extension for this links.